the self-love archives

when it ends with us doesn’t end with us: the harm we can't ignore with jenna zebro

• Julia Salvia • Episode 43

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this conversation goes beyond the headlines—diving into how media, power, and storytelling shape our understanding of abuse and who gets to be believed. let’s talk about the impact, the contradictions, and what this means for women everywhere.

after listening back to the podcast, i realized that we made a mistake with the jb vs bl case- blake lively is claiming that justin baldoni sexually *harassed* her, not sexually assaulted her. while both are very serious, there is a distinct difference between them, and i want to acknowledge and clarify that here.

if you or someone you know needs support:

  • domestic violence – call 800-799-7233 or text START to 88788 (U.S.) thehotline.org
  • sexual assault – call 800-656-4673 (U.S.) or chat online rainn.org
  • workplace harassment – learn your rights + file a complaint at eeoc.gov
  • global support – find helplines worldwide at unwomen.org

you’re not alone. 💜

connect with julia on instagram @beautybyjulia + tik tok @juliasalvia

unlock more archive content on instagram @theselflovearchive + tik tok @theselflovearchives

sign up for the self-love archives newsletter: www.theselflovearchives.com

Julia Salvia:

As a survivor of domestic violence, I do not like what's going on with Blake Lively, Justin Baldoni,

Jenna Zebro:

and Ryan Reynolds. Completely agree. He's, he's in there. No, he's done. He's cut.

Julia Salvia:

Yeah, I don't want to watch any of his movies anymore, and it's disappointing because I'm not gonna lie, like, as an actor, I kind of really enjoyed his I was a fan. Yeah. I was definitely a fan. Yeah, like, I enjoyed

Jenna Zebro:

his movies, I enjoyed I liked his whole personality. His commercials. Like, he was very, yeah. And now I've come it's fake. But I feel like we pretend Did, he was with Scarlett Johansson, and then they did a movie together, and then they ended up together. Like, I feel like everyone bypasses that, too. But everyone also, I feel

Julia Salvia:

like, bypasses the fact that Blake Lively was basically in the same position. She was with a guy! What's the guy's name from, um, why was I gonna say Pretty Little Liars? Gossip Girl? From Gossip Girl. But I

Jenna Zebro:

didn't think they were together

Julia Salvia:

when Someone said they were! Not, maybe not when, when her and Ryan Reynolds got together, but it seems to be that both of them like to be their co workers. Well, I

Jenna Zebro:

just saw this thing a couple days ago that she wanted him fired. Like, she got majority of the people from Gossip Girl fired because she didn't like them. And she tried turning every single person against Penn Badgley. And then they ended up dating. I'm like, how did that Like, what did you do to, like, get to that level? That's so weird. Yeah. Truly, what did you do to get to that level? And, yeah, to just have the control to be able to be like, Yeah, I don't like you, like, you're out of this show.

Julia Salvia:

And I think that's Who are you? Yeah. I think that's what we don't get to see as, like, just Not, I think I'm a true believer that everyone is just a person. They are just people. Like sometimes people fangirl over, over me and I'm like, Yeah. Chill out. I'm just a girl. Like, I'm just a person. There is nothing special about me. I'm just a person with a cool job is usually what I say. And I can't fathom being in a position like someone like Blake Lively or another, you know, celebrity. That has that type of control, control, pull, like I don't, I don't know what that's like, but I know the type of like pull I have on the level that I'm at and I, so I, I can see, I couldn't imagine it, but I could see why I could see why this all came to be and why it's possible that even after treating so many people obviously very wrong and literally in the public eye,

Jenna Zebro:

Yeah. Well, it's interesting to see all this stuff come out now. Like, cause I feel like everything It's like everybody's doing a compilation of it. Yeah, exactly. Cause it's like thing after thing after thing that you did wrong. Yeah. And it was acceptable and it was okay to act like that. But like, overlooked, but now it's, now it's serious.

Julia Salvia:

Because this is a, now you fucked with a really serious topic. Yeah. Now you fucked with something that You just got caught up. Like, now it was your time. Yeah. Basically. Yeah, 100%. And I can't just say, like, we're talking mainly about Blake Lively, but Ryan Reynolds to play in this. Yeah. Colleen Hoovers to play in this. Um, I wouldn't say I know that it sounds like we're on, like, a side here. I wouldn't say I'm necessarily, like, on a side. No. I think

Jenna Zebro:

once, like, the trial happens, like, Maybe I'll pick a side then. Yeah, exactly. Then I'll pick a side, but I feel like everyone's picked a side now, though. Yeah. Like, seeing everything, because he, like, showed, like, receipts after receipts. Like, she just made these allegations, but I haven't seen anything that, like, backs it up. But then again, like, how can you not believe her? But then again, how can you not believe him, if there's proof? Agreed.

Julia Salvia:

It's, it's really tough as someone who As personally as someone who's been through like a relationship with domestic violence and a lot of abusive relationships and um, Who's been sexually assaulted before like to? Immediately not believe the woman because the statistics are so high On domestic violence, on, um, sexual assault, that like, it's, it's nearly, I'm gonna, I'm gonna quote this now, but I'm gonna check my sources and stuff and put them in the show notes, everyone. I'm pretty sure that 8 in 10 women get sexually assaulted in their lifetime. Women. Wow. Like, that's so high, that Look, yeah, it's scary to even think about that. It's terrifying. So to think, that whole trend with like, would you choose to be in a room alone with a bear or a man? Obviously a fucking bear.

Jenna Zebro:

Yeah.

Julia Salvia:

Obviously a fucking bear, because I don't know what that man is

Jenna Zebro:

capable of. Yeah. You know how you see those trends on TikTok, like, who would be the three men that you would be okay having in a room? You know? Like that's, or like that trend now on TikTok, like, have you heard, like, where you run and like you're telling your story of how you're running from a man because of what they did to you? Have you seen that? That got me a little teary eyed. Yeah, like I remember I just saw one. She was young. I think she was like 13 and she was on her way home. I think from school or something. And there was this, she like takes the path home. And she saw this creepy guy taking that path and like looking at her. So she went on the highway instead. And then she was about to pass a car. That was just like stopped there. He was hiding under the car, like ready to like slice her leg open. So she wouldn't want, like, she like had a weird feeling like, Oh my God, I need to run the other way. He came out from under the car and started chasing her. And like, that's like the song, like, do you know what song I'm talking about? It's like, but yeah, I'll have to show you that TikTok, but it's intense to think that you have to do that in those situations, like you have that feeling. Because that is too high.

Julia Salvia:

Listen, I got a D in statistics, okay? I got an A in statistics. Really? I did. I'm glad to have you here. Um, I got a D in statistics. So, maybe I'm wrong with the statistics, but like, I don't know, 8 out of 10 to me, an 8 out of 10 chance is way too high for me to fuck around with my life. Yeah. And that's what most women end up, and not to say that it's just women, but in this case, like, speaking about women. I, where it would fall, on a most likely scale, to be a woman that's going to fuck around with her life. Exactly. Cause you don't think she's gonna, I don't think most women would choose to fuck around with their life.

Jenna Zebro:

Yeah. They're

Julia Salvia:

gonna look over their shoulder, they're gonna choose the bear, they're gonna run the other way.

Jenna Zebro:

Exactly. 100%. Welcome

Julia Salvia:

back to the Self Love Archives podcast. I am your host, Julia Salvia, and I have a special guest today because she, I know, I know that she reads a lot and I know that she's got one hell of an opinion and our, our TikToks have been absolutely engulfed by this case study. between Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni. So before we get into all of the things and why this podcast episode really needs to be talked about today, and like why all these things need me to talk about, let me introduce you to my assistant, Jenna.

Jenna Zebro:

Hi everyone.

Julia Salvia:

So I really love that, that you love books like these, like Colleen Hoover's book, um, It Ends With Us is. I feel like where this all stemmed from.

Jenna Zebro:

Well, 100%. I think that was, looking back on it, I think that was one of the first books that I read to like, get back into reading. Oh. And I won't admit I loved the book, I thought it was great, but like, looking back on it now, I'm like, Now you see the problems with it. And I feel like you overlook that with a lot of authors. You never, you read the book to read the book. You don't know a lot about them. I don't typically, like, decide to search, Oh, like, what's the, what's the problems with this author? Like, if the book sounds good, I'll read the book. Yeah. But, like, then I'll regret it. But, I never really look at it that way.

Julia Salvia:

I don't think I look at books Until now. Yeah, I don't think I look at books like that either. Like, I don't look into who the author is. It's really just kind of like

Jenna Zebro:

No, I just saw this one thing, I remember I posted something about like, what I wanted to read next. And someone was like, Oh, well to convince you not to read this book. Like, she writes about Nazi romances. What? Like, what are you talking about? And she was like, yeah, and then I texted my one friend that reads too, and she's like, Yeah, like, she like, romanticizes like, the KKK, and like, stuff like that. I'm like, what are you talking about? Like, now I don't want to read this book. Like, now I'm done. That's so interesting. Yeah, but you don't know that.

Julia Salvia:

I look at books as like, especially I'm escaping

Jenna Zebro:

to a different reality. Yes,

Julia Salvia:

and that's actually why I don't read books like this. Because I don't want to escape. Want to go in that reality. I, I used to read books actually when I was in um Yeah, like those like, gang books

Jenna Zebro:

and

Julia Salvia:

like,

Jenna Zebro:

gang

Julia Salvia:

moments. Oh my gosh. I used to read books like, like, you know, fiction books like this, the romance books, the books that are trending right now that everybody's really into, I used to read those when I wanted to get away from my abusive relationships.

Jenna Zebro:

That's upsetting. Isn't

Julia Salvia:

that crazy? Yeah. Like To just

Jenna Zebro:

escape it. 100%. Literally. Because it brings you into like, a happy place, like I wish I was here, I wish that was me.

Julia Salvia:

And not even that, it brought me to have to deal with someone else's problems. Okay. Because a lot I mean, a lot of the books I read were fucked up. They were fucked up. Let's be honest.

Jenna Zebro:

They were fucked up. Like I read more books. Like I want this to happen to me

Julia Salvia:

Yeah, no mine were about like gang related like a lot of and I don't even think that that was just like that was just Purposely, like, it was accidental. Okay? Like, I was reading, um, I don't even know what any of them are called at this point because I've put them so far in the back of my head. But, like, I used to read those books. And they would still be, they would still sting in a similar way that, like, emotionally, like, the relationships I was in would sting. But it would allow me to not be me. And be someone else. Be in someone else's life, dealing with someone else's problems and trauma. Exactly. Until I close the book and I'm like, fuck, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not leaving the book. Like the emotions that were left with the book didn't leave

Jenna Zebro:

because

Julia Salvia:

whatever was happening in the book was still happening with me. It was crazy. And that's why I don't read books like that. Because one, I don't need to escape anymore.

Jenna Zebro:

Cause I

Julia Salvia:

love where I am in my life and I feel a lot, like very much healed from that place. But also Um, I, I don't, I don't like the escape, the escape part of, of books like that. So to come back and read Colleen Hoover's book for the sake of this podcast was a really interesting thing because in the weirdest way, the story of like Lily and Ryle Is very similar to what happened to me. So it was Different to see. It was different, yeah. To like, experience that again. And it's, it hurts me to see how Everything was portrayed. It just, everything is, is happening because I actually think that the intent, the original like, intent behind creating, um, It Ends With Us was so good. Yeah. Because they went at it, like Colleen Hoover went at it, and then Justin Baldoni wanted to create this movie because the intention was to share a more honest version of an abusive relationship. Yeah.

Jenna Zebro:

Well, because I feel like that's also why the book was so popular because so many young girls and like, everyone was just experiencing that book and like, no, I can't put up with this. And like, I don't ever want to go through this. Because I feel like that's why so many people got back into reading after they read that book. Yeah. Because it was just powerful to read.

Julia Salvia:

Yeah, because that's how most abusive relationships happen. Like, you hear in most movies and books, it's so extremely exaggerated. And I'm not saying that those situations and those things don't happen. But it's It's different to read a book.

Jenna Zebro:

Yeah. Because I feel like you're feeling it more. When you're actually sitting there, flipping the pages, reading it. Because you're seeing it in your head. And you're picturing this happened to you. Or just watching someone experience

Julia Salvia:

that. You're also, though, at the same time, like You're not seeing the, like, the worst version of something happening. Because when you think of, like, very serious topics, like domestic violence, rape, sexual assault, you're watching these, like, crime TV shows and they're, the people have died from this. And that's not to say that that can't happen. It can. But a lot of women and people go through all the steps that come before it. Yeah, like they get pushed Then they like it leads up to like it does and that's what happened. Um That's what happened with me, like, I was just, um, There was a lot of gaslighting, there was a lot of mean things said, but then came the pushing, then came the shoving, then came the strong grip on my arm, then came, you know, choking me against a wall, like, That, it was, it's like a slow rolling snowball into it actually getting very serious. Yeah. And I actually think, thinking back to like the book and the movie, I think that it, it jumped into it almost too quick. It did. It got, I think the movie or just the book? I think more so the, the movie.

Jenna Zebro:

Yeah. I think the

Julia Salvia:

movie jumped into it cause I honestly

Jenna Zebro:

feel like when I was watching the movie, like I really didn't connect it. No. Cause I feel like they really It felt random. Yeah, I'm like, if it's kind of random, because I'm like, no, he didn't hit her. You know, like, that's really how I felt, like, especially that scene in the kitchen. I'm like, no, that didn't happen. Like, that was the whole point, but I just didn't see it at first.

Julia Salvia:

Yeah, it was 1000 percent better explained in the book. Of how that came to be, but I definitely think it's

Jenna Zebro:

powerful because I remember seeing like a lot of people talk about it after and saying Well, that's the whole point like you don't see it coming and like you don't expect it But I I just feel like it could have been a little bit more seen in the movie.

Julia Salvia:

I wish they really Went into her head and really and like described her Well, because I feelings. Yeah,

Jenna Zebro:

because I didn't feel like she didn't I didn't picture her looking like this either First of all, like I, if we're talking about that, like, I just like everything was just different in my opinion.

Julia Salvia:

They completely, utterly casted, like Blade Lively, as I feel like most people would agree, was not the right person to cast for this movie. No,

Jenna Zebro:

not at all. She was not the right person. I think maybe when she was in Gossip Girl, yeah. That around age, but I just don't think I just feel like they just kind of switched everything in comparison to the book and the movie. I pictured her way younger in the book. And then seeing her, like, the outfit choices and everything, like, that's not what I pictured. Like, I like to see what I'm picturing in my head then, and that should have been how the movie was. At least. Yeah. At least. And I just didn't see that. No. So I feel like I didn't connect with it like I did with the book already.

Julia Salvia:

I agree with that. I think, as I was, like, very quickly, Voice, like listening to the book. I did not picture once her, her to be looking like that.

Jenna Zebro:

No. I don't know. I just, the outfit choices everything. I just,

Julia Salvia:

I think there's, there's a, like a happy medium I think when casting people, like it's, when celebrities get so large, it's celebrity. You have to be careful with how you cast them. Yeah. Like, if you casted, I don't know, you casted Vin Diesel, okay? Or The Rock, as Ryle. Ugh. Obviously, that's not gunned down. It's not a fit.

Jenna Zebro:

Yeah.

Julia Salvia:

You know what I mean? But even if you cast Well, I

Jenna Zebro:

didn't really think Justin Baldoni was a fit, though. I didn't think

Julia Salvia:

he was a perfect fit, either. But I think I

Jenna Zebro:

liked him in it, though. Yes. But I, initially, that wouldn't have been my pick. I just think he just seemed really old. I just pictured younger people,

Julia Salvia:

like that's just, that's really how I felt about it. They seem to take in the movie that, they just looked older.

Jenna Zebro:

They looked more in their

Julia Salvia:

30s,

Jenna Zebro:

but like But I know she did say that she just like, didn't age them right in the book. I remember reading that Colleen said that. She didn't, because how is he like 20 something years old already like a doctor? Like that's not realistic. But I mean, okay, who cares? Just follow how you did the book. I think it was 26 in the book? Like yeah, that's young to be a doctor. You're not a doctor yet. True. That's why she said she aged them older in the movie. But I feel like, who cares? It's a movie. You know, you really didn't need to age them.

Julia Salvia:

To that extent. Even if that was the case, I still don't think that Blake Lively was the right choice. Oh, no. Not at all.

Jenna Zebro:

Well, because she wanted to be more of a director than just a person in the movie. Well, think about all the other roles she's played. Yeah, and I turned a lot of things. I must say, I was a fan. Like, I loved her. Mm hmm. Not anymore. Now it's cut.

Julia Salvia:

I never really

Jenna Zebro:

liked her. I don't have, like, You did when I made you watch Gossip Girl. Like, I was like, yeah, I love her. Isn't it

Julia Salvia:

so interesting that we were watching, like, Gossip Girl? Like, every time you come over, we do work. You were watching, like, you wanted to turn on Gossip Girl. And we were, like, watching her. I know, I loved her. Before

Jenna Zebro:

this even came to be. Yeah, I was, and I loved her in The Shallows. And I watched her a lot in Simple Favor. I loved her in movies.

Julia Salvia:

I, I did, I felt like the role of her in Simple Favor Fit. That's why I sent you that second movie. It fits, but I actually think that it almost like foreshadows. Yeah, I think it fucking foreshadows what's happening now, especially the second movie.

Jenna Zebro:

I haven't seen it yet, but oh, no, it didn't come out yet Oh, okay. No, it's because I told you no one wanted to pick up the movie because they don't get along they hate each other Yeah, so no one wanted to pick up the movie because she refused to do a press tour with her That's why it's on Amazon and you're just seeing like simple things like that. Yeah. Because no one wants the movie. Yeah. But it looks good. Like, now I'm kind of disappointed. It looks great.

Julia Salvia:

No, it looks, it looks like a good movie because the role was correct.

Jenna Zebro:

Yeah. Like if she, if, I don't, you never read Verity, but she would have been the perfect person in that movie. Everyone says that. TikTok and stuff. That would have been her role because that's almost like a simple favor like

Julia Salvia:

yeah creepy

Jenna Zebro:

way and stuff like she would've been perfect for that

Julia Salvia:

I think Colleen Hoover got starry eyed when the the idea of like having such

Jenna Zebro:

big people in this movie Yeah,

Julia Salvia:

I think she got really starry eyed and the idea of doing something meaningful It was just out the window. Yeah, it went in one ear, out the other. She saw stars, rose colored glasses when she heard, like, Blake Lively.

Jenna Zebro:

And I don't know for what, though, because I feel like that book was so popular. Like, there was no reason to be like, I need famous people in this movie. Millions of people read this book. Millions of people loved it. So there was no reason to just, you could've casted anyone, and we would've all watched it. Like, it wasn't because Blake Lively was in it.

Julia Salvia:

I don't, I don't know, I don't know what it was, like, specifically, but after that, that ten minutes where she had something at the end of the book, at least in the, um, the Audible, like, version,

Jenna Zebro:

where

Julia Salvia:

she talked about her experience, like, with domestic, like, her mom being in a domestic violence relationship, her basically playing the role of Lily, seeing her mom in this, in this relationship. It was shocking. I never, I never read that part in the book. Shocking, but also, like, I'm not shocked in the way of, like, a lot of art comes from personal experiences. And I believe that a lot of fiction books come from personal experiences. Even non fiction, too. Yeah, no, exactly. And then, obviously, biographies are just,

Jenna Zebro:

you know,

Julia Salvia:

it's literally from your life. But, like, for her to write a book like this based off of The inspiration of a traumatic experience she had as a child through the eyes of like her mom basically and like her parents It's I'm not surprised that that had happened.

Jenna Zebro:

No that

Julia Salvia:

there was this personal connection What I'm surprised about is how she says that she wanted to end the cycle But it doesn't seem like that's what happened It did. And I don't like when people contradict themselves.

Jenna Zebro:

Mm hmm. Well, cause I feel like that's a lot of how her books are, too. Mm hmm. Like, there has to be, like, some, like, messed up trauma in every book. I think every author's got some sort of messed up trauma.

Julia Salvia:

Like, what you were talking about before.

Jenna Zebro:

Why do you wanna Yeah.

Julia Salvia:

Why do you

Jenna Zebro:

want to write I know. And it was so sad because I loved the first book. I think the first book, it was like, she only likes to envision people like blonde hair, blue eyes. And I'm like, oh my god. Like, I had no idea. And then I like said to my friend, she's like, yeah, like, it's like super controversial. I'm like, I wouldn't have known that if someone didn't tell me that. Because I read hundreds of books a year. Yeah, and I'm not like analyzing like the authors like if I like your book. I like your book if I don't I don't yeah I don't look into like the things and I would have no idea. I didn't get that when I read the first book I was crying reading the whole first book. It was a sad book And like I didn't picture that at all, but it's crazy to think the differences in books and then you look at the authors so this case with

Julia Salvia:

Justin Baldoni and Blake Lively and Sprinkle of Ryan Reynolds or, uh, Heavy. Yeah. Heavy input. Have you ever seen them do ice cream cones where they put the sprinkles on the bottom, then the ice cream, and then on top? That's Ryan Reynolds. You pick two flavors of ice cream, and Ryan Reynolds is the sprinkles completely contaminating the entire ice cream. He has too

Jenna Zebro:

much of an input. Well, cause peop well, what's crazy is I see I have a theory. Oh, I have a theory. I wonder if you have the same theory. Okay, go ahead. Go ahead. Tell me your theory. She's upset that he didn't want to be with her. Justin Maldoni. And Ryan Reynolds thinks they were having an affair. And that he wanted her, and she was like, no, no. And he like turned it around, like, no, like, you tried sexually assaulting my wife. I think that's what it is. Because people say, every single movie, stuff that she's been in, she gets with one of the characters. She did that with Gossip Girl, she was with him, then Ryan Reynolds. And she couldn't crack Justin Maloney, because he loved his wife. I think that Agree? What? Agree? No. I actually

Julia Salvia:

think No! Partially agree. I think that Ryan Reynolds is abusive towards Blake Lively. See, I thought that too. Yep. I could see that. And Justin Baldoni realized as they got closer as coworkers. Because here's the thing that I've noticed about Justin Baldoni, and this is all really like, very much like hearsay based off of just Yeah. What's on the internet. And what we're being fed. And I want to make that really clear because of the just the seriousness of like the topic.

Jenna Zebro:

Yeah.

Julia Salvia:

Um, we'll never know the full story and the full picture and know exactly what happened, but I feel like with the amount of receipts that Justin Baldoni has shared and the amount of things that are out there on the internet of like proof of all of a lot of things, we'll know a good amount.

Jenna Zebro:

Yeah.

Julia Salvia:

But there will still be some things missing. In getting super close to each other, maybe that was Blake Lively's intention. But To like escape, technically. Maybe, like in some sort of way. She's trying to escape from Ryan Reynolds. I but I also really think that Justin Baldoni has made it super uber clear over the past couple of years that he is an advocate for domestic violence survivors. He has done podcast episodes about it. He has helped in like charitable ways.

Jenna Zebro:

Yeah. He

Julia Salvia:

literally came out and said that he wants to do this movie Because to advocate. To advocate for domestic violence survivors. So, to really show a different perspective. Like, they're just, it's just so clear in all of the marketing and press around the movie. Yeah, how it was just like, done. Yeah, and I think what's unfortunately not in his favor is that you don't see men. Two things. You don't see men advocating publicly for women like that.

Jenna Zebro:

Mm hmm.

Julia Salvia:

And in such a big way. And two, you don't see men being emotional or sharing their emotions in the way that he outwardly does all the time. Yeah, exactly. So when you see him in like Blake Lively's like, lawsuit about how he's sharing these things about himself that are like, deep dark secrets. Yeah. He's, I feel like I can kind of relate in some sort of way because I'm, I could come out and tell you all the bad things that happen to me.

Jenna Zebro:

Yeah.

Julia Salvia:

But that doesn't make me a fucked up person. That just makes me a person who's comfortable with who I am as a person.

Jenna Zebro:

Yeah,

Julia Salvia:

and to be able to share like what happened to you. Exactly, and when we get close with people, like, sometimes we feel the need to bring it up. Share. Yeah, to share, to, to relate. Yeah. To share, to relate, to bring it up understand me. To help you understand the person. And I really think that that's what he had been doing in all of it. Um, and he's just like in an unfortunate situation because, He's a guy. Of course, everybody's gonna, when a woman comes out and says, you know, I was sexually assaulted.

Jenna Zebro:

Yeah.

Julia Salvia:

I'm gonna

Jenna Zebro:

believe the woman first. Exactly, because I feel like that happens a lot, too, with athletes and stuff. Like, you see when, like, a random girl will say, like, no, like, he assaulted me and stuff, and it's, it just ruins his reputation. It comes out, oh, I was just kidding. You know, and like, that just ruins someone's life. And it can easily just ruin a man's life when you make that kind of accusation. What

Julia Salvia:

person's life? Like, it just, in this case, like, there is some sort of, like, double standard. But I do think double standards exist in all aspects. But in this case, with just, Justin Baldoni and Blake Lively, like, If you are genuinely fucking around and lying, about being sexually assaulted, you are hurting women like me,

Jenna Zebro:

who

Julia Salvia:

have actually been sexually assaulted, who have actually gone through domestic violence, like, you are hurting women who need to be

Jenna Zebro:

supported. Because then, like, say another case comes, no, I don't believe you. Exactly. And it was true. Like, those aren't the kinds of things that you pretend that happened to me. Yeah. And it didn't.

Julia Salvia:

And that's such an important thing to, like, It's just so incredibly important to, like, we know people lie all the time, we know people make shit up all the time, like, and it's, you know, in court most times it's, I say most times because not everything I feel like is fair and is done correctly, but Yeah, definitely. It's innocent until proven guilty.

Jenna Zebro:

Yeah, that's how it always should be.

Julia Salvia:

And I just feel like this, this is A lot of situations

Jenna Zebro:

it's not like that though.

Julia Salvia:

No. No.

Jenna Zebro:

You're

Julia Salvia:

guilty until proven innocent. Exactly. And I think in this case that was unfortunately what had It's happening to

Jenna Zebro:

him. Yeah,

Julia Salvia:

what had happened. And I sit on the fence of, you know, wanting to be on like the woman's side, but also But honestly,

Jenna Zebro:

I feel like even looking at it, I don't really see anyone being like, Yeah, like, I believe her. You know, like, technically, like, when we say, like, Oh, no, like, he's, like, guilty until proven innocent, Like, no, I don't really feel like people think like that right now. There's such a lack of fucking emotion from her. Yeah, from her side. Well, even on that SNL 50, like, how they made a skit, Her and Ryan Reynolds, like, someone was like, Oh, how are you doing? And he's like, I'm fine, like, what have you heard? And Blake Live is like, What are you talking about? You know, like, And then immediately her face changes in the people around them, like, judging them. Like, looking at them like, No, you're a liar. Like, you can notice that. I remember, like, a couple directors in the back, like, I saw. There was a lot of directors. I don't know specifically his name, but he was looking at them like, I know what you did. You know what I mean? Like, just that, that she's lying. Well, I don't know if she's lying. I can't say she's lying if there's no, like, facts, but there is a lot of facts. There's nothing

Julia Salvia:

that really shows to me that he did it. Not even that. Not even that. If you take out every bit of proof that Justin Baldoni's lawyers came out with, that Justin Baldoni came out with, if you gave me nothing, and you just went off of Blake Lively as a person and how she's reacting to all of this, I would say one of two things. I would say that is not, and everything is like take, you take with a grain of salt. You don't know how people are actually going to react.

Jenna Zebro:

Yeah.

Julia Salvia:

You know what I mean? And how they're going to handle their, their traumas and things that are traumatic. And I would assume that if someone sexually assaulted you or made you feel uncomfortable, you are traumatized by that in one way or another.

Jenna Zebro:

And I feel like you really wouldn't want to share that with the world.

Julia Salvia:

I, I think it depends. I was very quick to share what I had gone through with the world. And that's only because I

Jenna Zebro:

actually But I think you timed to process it, yeah. Of course. I don't think you would have done it like the next day, like you walked out of it. Nothing

Julia Salvia:

that she talked about, said, made me feel like she gave a fuck about the actual Case. Movie. Oh. The actual depth

Jenna Zebro:

of the movie, like Yeah. The depth of like helping domestic violence survivors. No, because I feel like especially throwing him in the basement. Like, touring, like, the red cart, like, that whole thing. Well, someone said that was about, like, her feeling uncomfortable around him. Yeah. So, she threw him, his whole family, all his friends. Even, I think, there was, like, a handy, I don't, I don't remember. There was some girl that, like, came for it with him. And she was stuck in the basement with all of them. They were sitting on top of water bottles. You saw the picture come out of them all in the basement. It's, how, how do you do that? I don't know.

Julia Salvia:

Since I don't want to paint a picture of what someone who's witnessed or experienced being sexually assaulted feels like. I don't want to paint a picture of that, but it doesn't seem like that's what happened. And that gets me to my second point.

Jenna Zebro:

Well, because I feel like you think about it, the movie was about this, and now this happened to the two main characters. But then also That's very interesting to think about. Ryan Reynolds play in all of this? Yeah, he was too involved. That's what makes me almost think, okay How did this happen if your husband was here all the time? True. That's not what I was going to

Julia Salvia:

say, but true.

Jenna Zebro:

I just feel like he would have been, like, knock him out or something. You know what I mean? Like, don't look at my wife like that. Like,

Julia Salvia:

knock him out. I was going to say, again, not painting a picture of what a sexual assault survivor, or a domestic violence survivor should look like, but if Blake Lively was actually sexually assaulted, I don't think that the way that she's been acting, responding, and being in the public eye has, would paint. Any picture that something like that happened, but also the second point I was going to make is like well What does Ryan Reynolds have to do with it? Yeah, because if he's abusing her which is my theory it makes so but it makes like I can't say that because I like Ryan Reynolds, but I like that sense Yeah, do you know what I mean? It makes sense because then he has some sort of control Over her. Because that's what an abuser does. They get into your head. They get into your brain. They control everything that you do. And I, we can see that in Ryan Reynolds and how he's trying to control everything about this case. About what happened. And by having this lawsuit come about and say Justin Baldoni sexually assaulted my wife. But

Jenna Zebro:

then I

Julia Salvia:

can also see it. Let me finish my thought. Hold on. By coming in and saying that Justin Baldoni sexually assaulted my wife, it's taking blame off of anything that he does to his wife. He's removing all of your attention off of him. I can't see someone being so angry off the fact that like, I don't know, let's say that like Blake Lively did have a thing for Justin Baldoni. Maybe she did start to like him. I can't, I can't see him being mad to the point where he would want to ruin someone's life, but I can see her doing that, but I, but hold on, I can see, I can see him wanting to ruin someone's life because They came out and said, I'm gonna tell the whole world that you abuse your wife. And that's why I think that Ryan Reynolds abuses Blake Lively.

Jenna Zebro:

I don't know. I don't feel that way. I feel, I 100 percent see your points and stuff. They would have one hell of a fucking ego if it's not that. I 50. Like, I could see her being, like, the root behind this whole thing, and like, he's backing her up, but I could also see what you're saying. Like, I would love to see more about that, but I feel like You haven't heard anything about them and like stuff because they've been together for a while I feel like there would have been some kind of sign But I could ha but there's not always signs, but When

Julia Salvia:

you I feel like when you have an ego so high But I feel like she does, like I don't really And that's why she would want no one to know. Yeah. My parents, when I was in, um, so the relationship that I kind of keep referring to in this, uh, podcast is this one relationship I moved away to a different state. I didn't know anyone there. The only person I knew was, like, my boyfriend at the time. Yeah. And my parents came to visit. And I had just been basically sexually assaulted by him, days before. And I was, I'm not super close with my parents, so I was going to confide in them and tell them what happened.

Jenna Zebro:

Yeah.

Julia Salvia:

But I couldn't.

Jenna Zebro:

I

Julia Salvia:

could see that, because you're

Jenna Zebro:

not comfortable.

Julia Salvia:

But not even that, you know why? It wasn't even necessarily about, like, comfortability, because I knew, even though I don't, I didn't have a close relationship with my parents, like, I knew that, like, I actually, I can't even say that I knew that they would fix it. I actually didn't tell them because of my ego. Because I had just moved into that apartment, even though they told me not to, a week before. Okay, I get what you're saying. And I didn't want to be like, you were right. Yeah.

Jenna Zebro:

No, 100%. And not

Julia Salvia:

only are you, were you right in the fact that I shouldn't have moved here because I know no one here, you were right because I ended up moving in to an apartment into a home with my abuser.

Jenna Zebro:

Yeah.

Julia Salvia:

That I'm not, you know,

Jenna Zebro:

safe in. And you knew. Yeah. Like you did that to yourself basically.

Julia Salvia:

But instead I shut the fuck up.

Jenna Zebro:

Yeah.

Julia Salvia:

And I figured it out by myself. And that, right there, because I let my ego speak for me. That made me more alone.

Jenna Zebro:

Yeah.

Julia Salvia:

It's, that is the scariest part when you know that someone you love is being abused or in that situation because you can't even bring it up.

Jenna Zebro:

No, you like, don't wanna step in. You don't wanna,

Julia Salvia:

because the more you do, the more the person being either they'll push you away or pushes you

Jenna Zebro:

away. Yeah. It just gets worse

Julia Salvia:

because I, I remember I would stop calling my friends or like when I did, I would stop talking about him.

Jenna Zebro:

Yeah.

Julia Salvia:

Because I knew in my gut that lie, what was happening was wrong. Was wrong. Yeah. I knew in my gut, so I stopped bringing it up. I stopped talking about it and. Every time my friends brought it up, it would make me want to call them less.

Jenna Zebro:

Yeah, because it's just like shut up like stop talking about it. Yeah, because I didn't want them to know Yeah, because I don't want to slip up and say something that might be concerning and you want to ask more questions and you

Julia Salvia:

You as well as the person who abuses you puts you or controls you or manipulates you there's so many ways to go about this, but they end up There's so many things that happen from guilt, from ego, that end up putting you in a position where you are alone. From self doing it, by self sabotaging yourself, which is honestly what you're doing, um, not listening to your gut is self sabotaging yourself. And, and or, your abuser. Not wanting anyone to be around you that could even for a second think that they're doing something bad.

Jenna Zebro:

Yeah.

Julia Salvia:

And that, that's why my theory, I really think that there's something that is

Jenna Zebro:

I could see it. I could honestly see that. There's something

Julia Salvia:

ego focused on like Blake and, and Ryan's side.

Jenna Zebro:

Yeah, well cause I feel like Ryan Reynolds is seen as like this charming, funny, like amazing guy. Mhm. And you wouldn't think that of him either.

Julia Salvia:

No, but guess who was also charming, funny, handsome, and everybody loved him. No. I mean, well, yeah, Ryle. Yeah. But also my ex boyfriend.

Jenna Zebro:

Yeah.

Julia Salvia:

Everyone loved him immediately. He's so Because you don't see it. No. They're like, he's so charismatic. Everyone that he met loved him. They thought he was so funny. They were like, oh my god, he's so handsome. But they had no idea that behind closed doors What he does. He was the meanest person. In the entire world. And that's what's scary about men. Well, and women. I mean, yeah, that is what's scary about men. Yeah, you

Jenna Zebro:

don't know until You see the,

Julia Salvia:

you see the craziness with like, someone like Ted Bundy.

Jenna Zebro:

Yeah.

Julia Salvia:

You know what I mean? Like, you, it's just You don't know until like, you're really in it. And you could say the same thing about Ryan Reynolds.

Jenna Zebro:

Yeah, that's true.

Julia Salvia:

The part in all of this that I think is important is that the entire integrity the entire meaning and the entire good thing that was supposed to come out of this. Didn't. Didn't, yeah. And I don't know if it will. No.

Jenna Zebro:

I don't think, no, not at all. Because I really think that all of this Like the movie's gone, like we're done with the movie, we're done with the book, now let's focus on this. Like we're never gonna think about the book and the movie again. I think this is gonna put

Julia Salvia:

some Really tough emotions on women who are in That position. That she might not be in. That, but also I think it's gonna put women who are being sexually assaulted, who are in domestic violence relationships, like, I really think it's gonna put them in a tough position. In, in wanting to Speak up. Speak up, and wanting to go to court, and, and bring their abusers to court, and Basically give them, give them what they deserve. Yeah. Because in a lot of, in a lot of ways there isn't proof.

Jenna Zebro:

No. When

Julia Salvia:

a lot of these things happen. There aren't photos, there aren't videos.

Jenna Zebro:

No. There's no like actual proof to like, say like, yeah you did this.

Julia Salvia:

Mm hmm. So it's so disappointing to see If it is true that Blake Lively really was kind of just exaggerating something that had happened and she wasn't sexually assaulted by Justin Baldoni, like, this is going to be a case Of the century.

Jenna Zebro:

Yeah, well I feel like this was also like the Johnny Depp and Amber Heard case. I

Julia Salvia:

was just gonna say that, like a very similar I don't think they were the same necessarily. No. But I do think Cause I

Jenna Zebro:

think it was known that he did stuff to her though. Yeah. But like she did stuff to yeah. Yeah. That was completely different. I think that was just That's similar in that area. That

Julia Salvia:

was a relationship of like two extremely unhealed people. Yeah. Two extremely unhealed people. And this is a case of a work relationship.

Jenna Zebro:

Mhm. Possible lover, possible abusive husband. Yeah. I mean, there's like many different areas to like add on. There's so many

Julia Salvia:

directions that

Jenna Zebro:

it could

Julia Salvia:

go in. This could be

Jenna Zebro:

a movie.

Julia Salvia:

Yeah. Like, growing this. This could have been. And I'm sure that there will be a Netflix documentary out on this case. I'm sure there

Jenna Zebro:

probably could have been on Peacock already. Like, everyone's opinion so far. Yep, 100%.

Julia Salvia:

I just think that it's not a win for either of them. It's not a win for either of them, but it's also not a win for women who've been abused. It's not. And that's what's, I think, the most disappointing thing that will come out of this. It will end careers. It will most likely be a contributor to people staying in relationships that they might not, should not stay

Jenna Zebro:

in.

Julia Salvia:

But I, I hope that even though the integrity of the whole point Of It Ends With Us. The whole, like, idea of It Ends With Us. Is It Ends With Us. And I, I hope that at the very least, even though there's so much of this, like, Filler. Like, the, the case literally just feels like filler.

Jenna Zebro:

Because

Julia Salvia:

it's just so ridiculous.

Jenna Zebro:

Yeah.

Julia Salvia:

I, I hope that women who are struggling, Men who are struggling, anyone who's in a relationship, Or has a work relationship that makes them uncomfortable or who has been sexually assaulted or is in, you know, a relationship that Has they've dealt with domestic violence or that they're being abused or being controlled manipulated, whatever I hope that they can look past this filler And still be able to speak up. And be able to see the message. That it does end with them. That they are the ones that end the cycle. That they are the ones that are in control of their destiny and what happens next for them. And it's not an easy thing. It's an extremely scary thing. Especially you know, in a place where you're so used to something. But I hope that we can go beyond using. Other things and other outside sources and people And finally see the value in ourselves that we also deserve better

Jenna Zebro:

Exactly

Julia Salvia:

Not just our kids, not just our babies, like not just our friends, our sisters, our family Like you deserve better too You are worthy of healthy relationships And my god, if I could tell anything to myself Listen to your fucking gut Like, listen to your fucking gut. It tells you everything that you want to know. But we are so

Jenna Zebro:

I personally don't like to. Why? Because I just, not like that, but I just feel like a lot of times, like, I don't want to believe that. Like, even though I'll feel it in me. Mm hmm. Like, I, I like, kind of like, move past it. Like, I'm not the type that, like Likes to do those kinds of things. Like I They're not

Julia Salvia:

easy. No. That's why people don't like to do it, because it's not easy. It's not an easy decision. No, because

Jenna Zebro:

you don't want it Like, if something's so bad, you don't want to believe it is that bad.

Julia Salvia:

Of course. Because you don't want to believe that you could've ended up Deserved better. Yeah. You don't want to believe that you deserve better. You don't want to believe that you could've ended up in a position, in the same position that your, your parent was in. You don't want to believe that you are the statistic.

Jenna Zebro:

Mm hmm.

Julia Salvia:

But unfortunately, if your gut is telling you that that's where you're at, the only thing that's going to save you, the only thing that's going to heal you, in anything, is you, and it's your gut. And your gut is you. Listening to your gut is the most important thing that you can do. And I think our world is so loud, like this, I really just want to say this is such a dumb ass case. It seems so pointless, and I hate taking away The learning and the education and the importance of it and what will come from it because we're not there yet And I think that everything does truly happen for a reason

Jenna Zebro:

because we still have another year,

Julia Salvia:

of course Yeah, there's still like some time till this actually like happens But if this really was created on the basis of nothing It's just so disappointing. It's extremely disappointing It's so disappointing and it knocks down Where we tried

Jenna Zebro:

to get to. Like it just feels like 10 steps backward.

Julia Salvia:

Yeah, it does. I feel like we're in a world of 10 steps backward. But I know that whenever we go 10 steps backward, from where we're at, we always go 20 steps forward. And I'm hoping that this is one of those things that, where it gets worse before it gets better. And when we watch the documentary, we are watching the documentary, where it ends. It ends with us at the end, like it ends, it ends, yeah, it ends with them and this does not happen again and someone who is in a really tough spot and not, maybe not a, not a comfortable spot in their life can feel confident enough to be able to take their case, their story to court, to say something, to help someone else. And, I mean, and that's on the Self Love Archives because that is exactly why I started the Self Love Archives. Cause I know that we're not, we're, we're not alone in all of this. No.

Jenna Zebro:

Cause there's 8 out of 10. Mm

Julia Salvia:

hmm. I think at the end of the day, the world is so loud. And if we can take a second to listen to ourselves. Listen to our gut feelings, listen to how we're feeling, whether that's physically, emotionally, mentally, like that can change your life. If you can shut the entire world out and just listen to yourself, that is so incredibly powerful. So, you should listen to yourself. You should listen to yourself. I should listen to myself. You should listen to yourself. Everyone should listen to themselves. Because You only know what's good for you. Exactly. I mean, at the end of the day, like, we're all completely different human beings. But I know that we all have, we all have, like, our souls inside of us. And we I'll have someone to listen to, but again, the world can get so loud sometimes that it muffles out our voices.

Jenna Zebro:

Yeah.

Julia Salvia:

And I hope that we can push through and like, actually share our voices and be the ones that say, me too. Or be the ones that say it ends with us. So many thoughts on this case. So many thoughts on this book. So many thoughts on the movie, Colleen Hoover, and how this kind of comes to be. Comes to fruition. How do you feel about it?

Jenna Zebro:

I can't wait for the case. That's how I feel. Mm hmm. Like, I'm really looking forward to seeing the truth.

Julia Salvia:

Yeah. I'm looking forward to seeing the truth too, and I hope that it does actually. Come out.

Jenna Zebro:

Yeah

Julia Salvia:

in the case a year from now. Maybe we'll pick this back up then.

Jenna Zebro:

Yeah, March 9th, 2026 2026

Julia Salvia:

Thank you so much for tuning in to the self love archives and for thank you for hanging out with me Jenna and chatting with me about this if you are a Book lover. You're a book lover What are your opinions? Yeah, if you're a book lover, if you're a movie lover, I would love to know your opinions on this case. Where you stand, what you think, unbiased opinions, truly, because I think at the end of the day, like, I'm still, I'm on, I'm not on a side, I'm just on the fence, and I'm just going off of what the facts are. What we

Jenna Zebro:

read, what we watch, what lawsuit's

Julia Salvia:

exact, yep, and just how I feel as like, a person who can relate to what's going on. And it's just so weird. It's like almost like, um, the irony, that is the word. This whole thing is just ironic. It is. It is the irony of the fact that you have an author that experienced something that experienced domestic violence. The irony that she wrote a book on it, the irony that there was a movie made of it. And then the irony that there is now a case of sexual assault.

Jenna Zebro:

And contradicting yourself, like,

Julia Salvia:

the

Jenna Zebro:

son.

Julia Salvia:

Just like, and oh my god.

Jenna Zebro:

Yeah, let's not forget about the son. No,

Julia Salvia:

that's a whole, Colleen Hoover's son, yeah. That is a whole nother topic that we'd love to hear about too. Yeah, that's a whole nother topic, a whole nother situation. And I think, ironic. The irony is just. That's what the movie should have been called. Really loud. How ironic.

Jenna Zebro:

Yeah. That's the

Julia Salvia:

documentary. It should have

Jenna Zebro:

just been called, Starts With Us. Like the second book, the second book that starts with us. Yep, a hundred and ten percent. Yeah, basically it starts with like Lively and Justin Baldoni. Yep. And it's gonna end with us at the end of the case.

Julia Salvia:

Um, I will not be wearing flowers to go and partake in any of

Jenna Zebro:

the

Julia Salvia:

watching of the cases. And I will not be grabbing my girls to go enjoy a movie about domestic violence.

Jenna Zebro:

Yeah, basically it's not what I did.

Julia Salvia:

These things, these things need to be held with care. And respect to people that have went through this. And respect and kindness. Like at the end of the day, like, everything's up for perspective and someone's gonna say you got it wrong. But I think that there's a way to do things with a good heart. And that was not in this. No, not at all. In a lot of ways. If you or anyone you know has experienced Sexual assault, domestic violence, abuse, anything that we've spoken about on the podcast today. Please check out the show notes below for any of the resources that can help. If there's anything that I have to repeat over and over and over again, listen to your gut. It never lies to you. Thank you so much for tuning into this episode. the self love archives. Thank you again for being here and I'll see you guys.

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